#2: Casting The Vision

Welcome to the Business of Business - Two Daughters & Their Dad Podcast!

In our second episode Jack, Jennifer and Staci talk about ways you can share the vision for your business with your employees and your customers.

The #1 need we have for our business is people, customers & employees; yet the #1 challenge we have is people.

Jack's nugget of the day is hire slow and fire fast.

Jennifer talks about the importance of knowing what is the right fit for you and your business.

Everyone talks about how a successful entrepreneur embodies, and is consistent, in their vision.

But who are the Dempseys?

Jennifer Faith Dempsey has been in the beauty industry for over 10 years. The last 3 1/2 years she has owned J.Faith Hair Studio. She brings her experience on how she balances entrepreneurship and motherhood.

Staci Joy Dempsey is an insurance agent, a mom and a busy non profit volunteer. She truly understands what it means to be an entrepreneur.  Staci serves as the podcast's host.

Jack Dempsey is the dad who heads up this busy family.  He is a founding partner in Dempsey, Weiss & Associates, an Elmer, NJ based insurance and investment firm begun more than 30 years ago.

The Business of Business podcast is sponsored by:

Dempsey, Weiss & Associates, Elmer, NJ,     856-358-3900

J. Faith Hair Studio, Logan Township, NJ     856-975-5965

Email us at: TwoDaughtersAndTheirDad@gmail.com

Please download our Best of Nuggets eBook here.

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Jennifer Faith Dempsey has been in the beauty industry for over 10 years. For the last 5m years, she has owned J. Faith Hair Studio. She brings her experience on how she balances entrepreneurship and motherhood. Check out Jen’s blog.

Staci Joy Dempsey is an insurance agent, a mom, and a busy non-profit volunteer. She truly understands what it means to be an entrepreneur. Staci serves as the podcast's host.

Jack Dempsey is the dad who heads up this busy family. He is a founding partner in Dempsey, Weiss & Associates, an Elmer, NJ-based insurance and investment firm that began more than 30 years ago.

Transcript

Staci Dempsey:   0:00
Hey there. And welcome to the business of business podcast. Here were two daughters and their dad seeking to inspire and educate you to follow your dreams of being in business by teaching you the business of being in business. The good, the bad, the humor are all parts of our unique perspective as an entrepreneurial family. Thanks for joining us. So grab a coffee. Turned up the volume. Here we go.  

Staci Dempsey:   0:27
All right.  We are at podcast 002.  This is Staci and I am sitting around the table with Jack and Jennifer. How you guys doing today?    

Jennifer Dempsey:   0:00
Great  

Jack Dempsey:   0:00
Amazing

Jack Dempsey:   0:35
Wonderful, wonderful.    So I'd like to just jump right into this because there was something in our last podcast that really resonated, at least with the three of us, hopefully with our listeners. And so that was that the number one thing we need to grow our business is people. And yet the number one challenge to our business is people. That was something that you had said to us  Jack.   Jennifer was shaking her head. Certainly I'm in agreement.  So, could you just kind of expand on that a little bit for us because we're all in businesses where we are  depending on people, right?

Jack Dempsey:   1:16
Exactly. And I I think that when I talk to clients who are business owners and just other folks that are in business or in some type of leadership, that's the common theme. Is just the challenge of managing people, leading people,  finding the right people to help you in your business.   And so I know there was a quote by Michael Dell, who was the founder of Dell Computer that I've always thought about and he said - well -  when he was asked what was the one thing that you would do over again, he said I would have hired good people sooner. And so I think, you know, I would just like for us today that really dive into that little bit on you know how to do that. And for those especially realizing that they've got to step into that world and start bringing people or more people onto their team to take their business to the next level.  I'd really like to hopefully get some ideas and information out there that will really help propel them and get them to take that next move

Staci Dempsey:   2:27
Right and you and you used the word team, which I think is what most people have, or. everybody ultimately wants to build for their business right?    So I know right now you have a team, Jack of how many people at Dempsey Weiss?

Jennifer Dempsey:   2:43
Well, we have a team of somewhere between 25 - 30 and then we have sales associates out in the field of another 25.   So we have a lot of personalities out there.

Staci Dempsey:   2:56
Right.   So we would consider that a large team. Okay, Jennifer, now you have a team over there at J Faith Hair Studio.  And where were you guys that right now with with your team count?

Jennifer Dempsey:   3:08
We  have five stylists and I have one associate that we are training to be a stylist in our training program.

Staci Dempsey:   3:17
Excellent. Excellent. Now, when you opened the doors, three years ago how many people were on the team?  

Jennifer Dempsey:   3:24
Me.  I was the first employee. No, I I brought on -  how many did we have - two other people.   And, both people had no clients,

Staci Dempsey:   3:37
no clients.  

Jennifer Dempsey:   3:38
The business depended on me and my clientele.

Staci Dempsey:   3:41
Right. And, so out of the people that are there now, at J Faith Hair Studio who have been your day ones -  who has been there since the very beginning.

Jennifer Dempsey:   3:51
I have an assistant manager who has been with me since day one, and she actually worked with me prior. You know, convincing her to take this journey with me was an interesting one.

Staci Dempsey:   4:07
Awesome. And then so, Jack, I'm just interested to know or actually be reminded - because I think I was a kid -  how many people were on the team originally before the 20 to 35 in the other 25 out in the field. How many were on the team?

Jack Dempsey:   4:29
Well, there was one.  And I mean one. In addition to Dave, my partner and I, we hired a lady to do customer service and answer phones. And she didn't last long. I mean, we really didn't know what we were doing in terms of hiring.  So we went through quite a few people early on in terms of staff, but then we figured it out.   A little bit more of what we wanted, what we wanted it  to look like.  And then we got a little better at hiring into that.

Staci Dempsey:   5:10
right? So you said you kind of figured it out.   So now on the team you have a handful of people, probably more than a handful of people that have been with you for 20 years, 25 years, 15 years.  I mean, that speaks volumes. You know, there's there's some people that they just hope they can be in business 15 years, let alone have a handful employees who have been with them for 15 years or more. You kind of found your groove in the hiring process. What doe finding the groove - what does that really mean?

Jack Dempsey:   5:46
Well, good question. Before I answer, I want to go back to Jennifer's comment. I mean, I want people to hear the fact, though, that even though she brought a couple people under team that were pretty green to the business, she wasn't green.  She brought the clientele with her.  So certainly one of the things that I will encourage people out there who are looking especially in the service is business like Jennifer, is when they go to start or launch a business that they have some base under them so that again they can build off of that.  I think it would be very difficult, almost impossible, if Jennifer didn't have her clientele to kind of start her business with.   Then, because out of that, came more opportunities and referrals that she was then able, I think, to feed over to the other stylists.

Jennifer Dempsey:   6:52
Yeah,  and I think what is amazing to just three years in business, the clientele that I worked hard for for 13 years now is very comfortable sitting in my other stylist's chairs.    So they don't necessarily have to get their hair done by me any longer but they are loyal to the business. They're loyal to me.  So not only are we, casting a vision for employees, but we had to cast that vision for the clients that come to J. Faith Hair Studio as well.

Jack Dempsey:   7:31
So to answer your question, I think we begin to realize that we needed to determine what I should say, I determined what I needed to be doing to grow the business. What what were two or three things that I needed to focus my time one. And then look at everything else that needed to be done in the business and then begin to build some job descriptions on how to fill those responsibilities.  And, so once we began to really determine that, then we were able to hire people who could do these other things Now, anywhere from answering the phone, to filing, to ultimately getting insurance licensed, and then doing customer service at a much higher level.  

Jack Dempsey:   8:44
So I think your question was, how do I retain people for over 20 years?  And that's an interesting question, because all the folks that I have had been with me over 20 years came to work for me for less money than what they could have received out in a comparable job.  And I think the reason they did it was two things. One, I was able to cast a vision that we were a new business, and we were seeking to grow, and they would grow with us.  I also found ways that the because of where we were at it would feed into their quality of life because they could probably go make money, more money somewhere else but that meant more commuting time or traveling time, more time away from their family.  So we were really had a focus on hiring people that live close by that they could. You also have quality time with their family outside of work.

Jack Dempsey:   9:47
So I think it was interesting because then as we grew and got into being able to pay people what they could get other places, those new people haven't been with me for 20 years.

Staci Dempsey:   10:03
I haven't been stuck around.

Jack Dempsey:   10:04
 I just got to the point where I could pay what everybody else was paying so I dropped the ball in casting vision, right? And I think that it was casting that vision is what really inspired people to stay with us for the long haul.

Staci Dempsey:   10:19
Right, right.   And I know that a lot of certainly a lot of the business clients that I have, that I work with, they want to have a team. They want to grow a team.  They want to do exactly what you talked about. They want to focus on the things that grow the business and delegate, delegate everything else to someone else.  But, they often sit back and go don't even know how I could afford that.  I don't know how I can pay someone.  Yet the thing that they continue to get hung up on, and Jack you mentioned it,  was that they're trying to pay a certain hourly or commission schedule. That might be someone that works in a more ah urban type of area and where we are at its very rural. So they're trying to compare their business and their structure to another business, that it's really kind of apples and oranges.  

Staci Dempsey:   11:13
So the casting of the vision, you know, I think you what you also did was you reminded people of the things that would be important to them. Like I'm only going to be a five minute drive from home to work and back again rather than the hour and 1/2 longer drive.  Where people get hung up on how much am I going to get paid? And what are my health benefits and things like that look like, what is that  going to also cost me.  Four hours and travel time every single day, because I have to go to a certain place. Jennifer, you also talked about there's been one person that's been with you since the very beginning and you talked about you said taking the them on that journey with you.  What was that like as far as, you started talking to someone about taking the journey with you, was it something like Dad mentioned about casting a vision? You just used different language. So I'm interested to know why you and what your thoughts on all that.

Jennifer Dempsey:   12:16
Yeah casting a vision. You know, talking about the journey. I knew opening a business and opening a hair salon in particular,  that required talent,  was going to be the most challenging part for me because I knew  that I was talented at doing hair, but did I have the ability to help other hair stylists become talented at doing hair?  And I think that you put yourself in a leadership role. Not everybody is the same way as you.   I can remember working 50 or 60 hours a week behind the chair, and it was nothing, right? And at that point in my life or in my career I was looking for people that was willing to do the same thing that I was doing. If you couldn't put 50 hours and 60 hours and then you weren't a good fit for me, right?  And I think through this journey and now, once I had my daughter, realizing work life balance is very important to me and important to women in general, because I work with mostly women and finding a balance of  how does that work.

Jennifer Dempsey:   13:41
So casting my vision now  in my business is more about how can we be really amazing hair stylists and also being amazing moms and not feel guilty.   Making the sacrifice at home or making the sacrifice at the salon and finding that balance. And that has been very successful to where I am now.  So that's really what my vision looks like in the salon.   How can moms still come and be hair stylists and make good money and still spend time with their kids?   So that's the vision that we've been talking about recently in the salon.

Staci Dempsey:   14:35
Awesome. And so you both mentioned something about if someone is not the right fit or finding the right fit or, you know, I hired people and you know, either I was able to pay them a certain amount and they didn't stick around long enough for in your case, Jennifer, they weren't  putting in a certain amount of hours because that's what you are willing to do. Then they weren't the right type of fit.  What do you?   What has been your experiences in how to handle when you do realize someone is not the right fit?   Do you feel like you can identify that much sooner now, then you did a few years ago or even before you were in business for yourself  Jen?   I mean, when you were working in the industry.

Jennifer Dempsey:   15:24
it's so hard. So I think you have to figure out what does the right fit mean to you. And just to use an example for me, I'm looking for super nice people. Like it seems simple, right?   But, you know, again in my world were in a hair salon. If you're not gonna be nice to me than you have to go, right.   So figuring out, like, what is a good fit for you I'm looking for really nice people and then the list goes on from there. But I think the biggest thing I've learned from my dad talking about employees in general is you know, I tend to hire people very quickly  and then I have a hard time letting them go, right?   Because I'm a people person, and I tend to like people, but they are  not a good fit for the salon.  So I had to take a step back and say, Let me slow down on hiring people so quickly and making sure they're good fit during that first month before I invite them to really come into my company.

Jack Dempsey:   16:38
Yeah, I think that's that is critical to be able to find depending on the type of business you're doing. But if to be able to find that simple, you know, two or three things that you know that are what I would call leading indicators that they could go on and do the position. Well, so in Jennifer's case, obviously she's in the hair business the service business, and customer experience is critical.  So clearly just that initial is this person someone that has a lot of hospitality, a lot of welcoming attributes are a good indicators.   If they are bringing people with clients and they're not even able to engage them in a conversation, well, chances are they're not going to be the right fit for J. Faith Hair Studio.  

Jack Dempsey:   17:39
In our case, you know, many of the folks that we have that have significant roles in our organization quite frankly, came through our receptionist. I mean, we have a busy phone and you have to juggle that clearly. That's the one position where you need to have patience and to be a cool under fire because of the fact that that phone could be ringing. You be juggling two or three lines. You could be someone coming for a meeting . So even though that position is extremely important, if we can bring people through that and they can handle that, well, then that's a good indication for us that they can handle about anything within our organization with excellence.  

Jack Dempsey:   18:29
So finding what that is in your business, I think, is what's critical.  To be able to find that you can and do use probation periods and make sure again that you should hire slow and fire fast, as Jennifer alluded to.   But being able to find that that particular, part of your business that you can have people enter into that will really tell you if they're the right fit for your business.

Staci Dempsey:   19:01
 Well, and I think I've seen it in both both businesses where people walked out after the first day,  so that made things a little bit easy.  Obviously, you're not going be the right fit if you can't handle a little bit of pressure from day one .

Jack Dempsey:   19:17
also on that, too. I mean in our case, and this wouldn't fit for every business out there, but in our case, using a temp service is a great way to bring people in and test the waters.  Because you can call the temp service and tell them what you're looking for. They can send people in, and you can quickly see if someone is going to be a fit. You can see that pretty quickly and then, quite frankly, just call them and tell him not to send that person back. So it kind of makes the termination a lot easier to handle. But if you actually go through a hiring process and bring them on as an employee, sometimes you can have a tendency to hang on too long, hoping that they're going to change.

Staci Dempsey:   20:07
Sure, Absolutely, absolutely. So the casting of the vision and getting buy in -  do you think there's something that's again universal that people can, they're trying to cast their vision to really, truly get buy in from potential teammates, You know, do you think that there's something specific that whether it's in language, whether it's in commission scales or salary potential or do you think there's something on a universal in  businesses that really kind of get people to buy into your business as far as becoming a teammate?

Jennifer Dempsey:   20:55
Yeah. I mean, I think it's just about being honest from the beginning of this is the vision of the company.   This is where we're at. And this is where I plan to go. And their vision almost has to match your vision,   Maybe not 100% from the beginning, but as long as you know they believe in you and the culture and have some similarities with that then I think that they are willing to jump on board.  And then the harder part is to continue to cast the vision over time because people get discouraged. People want things quickly, right? People aren't aren't willing to wait. So making sure that that the vision is consistent and instead of just that one time.

Jack Dempsey:   22:00
All right. Right. I think that's it. That's it. I mean, cast vision. I mean, that words thrown a lot around a lot - mission and vision.    So I think that as Jennifer said having that culture and the critical part of it as an entrepreneur is a business owner is that you have to embody the vision. You have to embody the mission. Whatever word you want to attach to it, you cannot on -  Jennifer used the word consistent - if they hear  you saying one thing and not doing it yourself, you're going to have a very difficult time for any buy in.   So as the leader, you have to be consistent with the vision. You have to embody it.  

Jack Dempsey:   22:53
And I think you have to be very humble when you find that you're not doing it. I remember having a meeting once with some customer service reps and there was something I was aware of, that I was not doing that.  I had promised in terms of training and some other things. And so I just went into that meeting and I just just started out apologizing that I know I dropped the ball. That I I overestimated what I could do my capacity. And so we went on to do training after I did all that. And afterwards I had every one of them come up to me and said that's probably the most important part of that meeting was for you to basically does not blow by us but really just humble yourself.  Hey, I dropped the ball.  And so I think even when you cast a vision and you find that you're not, even though you're trying hard and your goal is not to mess it up, but when you do  just immediately you eat the humble pie and go in there and say, Listen, I messed this up, so but we're going to get it back on track.   So I think all those things over time is what  gives your team really the confidence that they're at the right place.

Staci Dempsey:   24:23
Yeah, absolutely. I know in my in my walk with non profit in the nonprofit world, there is this almost automatic stipulation that because you are working for a non profit, that you are going to be paid less than maybe what that same job would pay in a for profit because you're working for the mission, right?  You're working for the betterment of people or whatever it is; there's a deeper connection, there's a overall people feel very attached to the purpose of why am I staying in this certain position getting paid less than maybe what I could get paid, but they're just very deeply connected to the service that they're doing. And I think in our for profit world it's that very thing,  again not that I don't believe in paying people whether you're in for profit or not for profit, what they shouldn't - They should be paid what they should be paid. But there's a it's almost in the for profit world, its that deep connection that we want people to feel.

Staci Dempsey:   25:36
 In the nonprofit world kind of the the blessing in it is it kind of comes with the cause. People are there because they want to be there, most likely because they truly believe in the actual mission -  day in and day out album.   And I think that's in our for profit life, that's really what we try to  get people to be connected to.  

Staci Dempsey:   26:01
So that's all just very, very interesting.   And I can say by watching it firsthand, certainly with Dad over the years, just every day walking the walk and talk in the talk. Just  listen back years ago, it was like a rarity that we closed early.  But you know what? Jack was here, you know? I guess. And if I'm gonna ask everybody else to be here till four o'clock on Thanksgiving Eve, I'm going be here a four o'clock, too. You know, it's just kind of just walking that walk and talking the talk. And I know Jennifer does that as well, with many, many nights, just they're wrapping up loosens and making things happen and making sure the next day goes a little bit easier for everyone, long after everybody else has gone home and been with their families and and things like that. So that's all good.  

Jack Dempsey:   26:58
You know, Staci, one of the things that Jennifer struggles with too, and I just before we wrap up, I want to just hit on this, that's the difference on between a commission based type of role and a salary. I know one of the things Jan and I have  talked about in her business because it is a commission based business.  Especially when people are coming into that business, not truly understanding that.   So, Jennifer,  just talk about that a little bit. What you're trying  to communicate with people on the long game, I guess of how to build a book of business and how much more rewarding that could be on a commission basis.

Jennifer Dempsey:   27:50
Yeah. I mean, I spend a lot of time in cosmetology schools, and I think the biggest thing that I've learned is schooling is still a business, and especially cosmetology school. We're teaching  how to do hair, but we're not teaching really how to be in the business of doing hair. So working with young people coming out of school, they have an expectation of I'm gonna make minimum wage and I'm going to school and learning how to do hair and then the only ex expectation is I'm gonna make minimum wage. That's kind of sad. And I joke with my dad all the time, maybe I got into the wrong business, we need to open a cosmetology school next, because I want to teach hair dressers how to make money right in life, right? So I tell people all the time that isn't it funny that most of the people in my family all make money off commission?   And there's not many of us that are salaried and and that's like a foreign topic to some people.  Some people are like commission - nope that's not for me, I'm not a salesperson.  They shut that down very quickly. But I think again, growing up with my dad and talking about commission, it hard for some people there. There comes some level of sacrifice when you are in a commission based industry and how do you talk to employees about that.

Jennifer Dempsey:   29:39
 So when we have clientele,  I think the biggest thing we just talked about this over the weekend is when you're working with clientele and working on building a book of business we're talking about building relationships, right?  We're not like here, just let me cut your hair, I don't remember your name and then I'll see you later, right?   It's like in 13 years I've been through divorces and adoptions and my clients having babies;  it's about relationships and people wanting to be connected with you and that alone is how you build a book of business, at least in my world. 

Jack Dempsey:   30:19
I think the other thing for those business owners out there that are looking to bring people into there business to grow their business, but it's going to be a more  commission component to their compensation, it  is critical that you communicate to these folks that they're going to be be hearing things from family and friends - you know how hard that might be? Or, you know, you could make more money over here, you know, with a salary.  They just need to be ready for that. And now if they're married, I mean, you need also make sure that their spouse is on board with it. Because obviously those are influences that even though the person you're bringing on your team might have just a ton of excitement and energy about but that that could be deflated pretty quickly by those around them. Especially when they're seeing other people kind of getting ahead in the short run. So it really takes a strong and consistent communication for your team who are out there trying to build, help you build your business, and either their compensation or a portion of compensation is going to be incentive based or commission based.  So making sure that they/we see that cautionary tale of watch out for people around because they can suck the energy out of you if you're not careful,

Staci Dempsey:   31:59
Absolutely.   And then part of casting that vision is what we're going to do maybe a lower pay right now with adding commission, on a bonus structure or incentive structure.   And, if we continue, if we just see the process, throw in x amount of time, then this is where you could be.   Because I know I've been in those meetings where, you know, we're trying to hire agents into the field and they're taking much lower pay than what they've been accustomed to.  But part of casting the vision has been if you stay the course & you are three or five years, you could be very well making much, much more money than what you've been accustomed to. But it's that initial it's going to be that initial sacrifice. It's going be that we're building something here, casting the vision.    We're gonna build it alongside with you.   It's something that I know both of you, watching you in your businesses,  is something you both have both said in your own ways and with your with your own employees and clearly are both doing a really, really good job at it.  

Staci Dempsey:   33:07
So any final thoughts on this topic of building the team and the number one thing that we need to grow our business is people and yet the number one challenge and growing our business is people  - any final thoughts?

Jennifer Dempsey:   33:20
Yeah, I think it's just important for people to know that it is truly the hardest part. And there's no magical solution to the problem other than just keep trying.   Especially when you're in a commission based business.  There's gonna be a right fit and for every five people you interview, there's only going to be one right fit. And that's okay.  You just keep on going, keep hiring, keep firing, and until you get the fit people.

Jennifer Dempsey:   33:54
Yeah, the only thing I would say to wrap it up is you need to set the example.  You need to embody what you're asking other people to do and continue remind them that the reason that they are there is that they can help you focus on those two or three important things that need to get done for the business to go the next level. And, when we take it to that next level, it's gonna be an exciting time, and they'll be glad they were a big part of it.

Staci Dempsey:   34:36
Excellent. Well, we're gonna wrap it up now. Thank you, Dad. Thank you. Jennifer.

Jennifer Dempsey:   34:41
Thank you

Jack Dempsey:   34:42
Thank you, Staci.

Staci Dempsey:   34:43
We wanted to list let our listeners know that if there's a topic that you want to hear more of  we'd love to hear from you in the comments section below. And please let us know if there is a specific topic that you like for us to discuss.  So this will be wrapping up podcast 002.  Thanks everybody for listening.  

Staci Dempsey:   35:03
We want to thank you for listening today. Please subscribe so you never miss an episode. Leave us a positive review. And we want to say thank you to our sponsors Dempsey,Weiss Associates and J. Faith Hair Studio.